THE FIRST SALVO IN THIS WAR?
Mateusz Wyrwich talks with the parliamentarian Antoni Macierewicz – the chairperson of the Parliamentary Team for Investigation of the Causes for the Tu-154M catastrophe on 10 April 2010
MATEUSZ WYRWICH: – It has been five years since the catastrophe. What point of the truth investigation are we at?
ANTONI MACIEREWICZ: – When we were beginning our work, we divided the investigations into three parts. We called the first one: a road to Smoleńsk. It comprises the course of events which are both political, organizational and technical and which conditioned this tragedy. It concerns, among the others, repair of an airplane, functioning of special services and organizational units of the state apparatus, and also some suitable Russian actions. The second part of our work concerned technical course of the catastrophe and was connected with navigation, approaching of the airplane to the airport, as well as the very course of events in the last phase of the tragedy, connected with explosions, the defect of engines and electrical power in the air, and, finally – the collapse of the airplane and death of passengers.
What was important in this phase was the fact of taking over the whole responsibility for leading the airplane through the centre ‘Logics’ in Moscow. It took place despite law and all Russian or international provisions. This fact that leading the airplane was under dictation of Moscow, and navigators in Smoleńsk only fulfilled orders from outside should be sufficient to burden the Russian party with responsibility for the tragedy which happened. It seems that the Russians wanted the airplane to be as close to the ground as possible. In this way it was possible to conceal the fact that the destruction took place as a result of an air explosion and make the events allegedly caused by the pilots’ fault. Certainly, a lot of alleged explanations were made and without a consent of Donald Tusk’s government or procurators, nothing could have even appearances of credibility. All these actions of the Russians and other events are well-documented. We have reports of 221 witnesses, among whom there are 65 witnesses of the explosion. What is interesting, among witnesses giving their reports, there are also Polish journalists, including one of TV celebrities: journalist Piotr Kraśko. We can reconstruct the whole course of the catastrophe, including the disperse of fragments into which the jet had collapsed. We can point to places in which there were other explosions and we know where and how particular parts of it collapsed. Thanks to archeologists we also know that the Tu-154M was torn into nearly 60 thousand fragments, most of them of the human hand size. Among them there were burnt and charred parts which had fallen before the airplane touched the ground. Do we need a stronger proof for an explosion in the air? As the most prominent experts in this area say, it is the only case in the world, that an airplane collapsed into so many parts.
– Are there any premises saying about who did it?
– There is no doubt that the consent of governments to concealing reasons of death of president Kaczyński and the Polish state elite made Władimir Putin bold and encouraged him to implement next plans: an attack on Ukraine, shooting down airplanes of Malaysian airlines, murdering the prime minister Borys Niemcow. In this sense it was the first salvo shot in a war which approaches borders of Poland and NATO. For, although Putin attacked Georgia first (in 2008), he was prevented thanks to determination of president Lech Kaczyński. Only his death, depriving Poland of the elite ready for opposing, opened a road to the West for Putin. Revealing real culprits of the tragedy in Smoleńsk at once in 2010, would have inhibited that course of events which we have witnessed today.
– An investigation is being carried out by the Polish military prosecutors in this issue…
– I watch the investigations very carefully and I think that so far prosecutors have been concentrated on….systematic concealing the truth and blurring traces of the crime. The fact that military prosecutors did not take part in the autopsy of bodies of the crash victims is unusual. None of prosecutors participated in the autopsy and what is more, military prosecutors even made it impossible to carry out the autopsy of bodies. It happens so because nobody doubts that the Russians have falsified this procedure, so we do not have credible investigations of causes of the Tu-154M passengers’ death. The airplane was not reconstructed because it has been in Russia till today, and the black boxes have not been returned either, so their original versions have not been investigated, and no investigation of the airplane debris on the spot of the tragedy has been done either. Investigations of explosive materials were begun two years after the catastrophe and on the basis of a falsified evidence! Shortly speaking, procurators did nothing which is required by the Criminal Conduct Code. So, how to believe these people?
– What do you mean?
– Families who wanted to carry out the autopsy were said that private actions in this sphere would result in procurators’ proceeding.
– Has anyone been informed so?
– Certainly they were. In 2012 prof. Michale Baden, a famous pathologist, was invited by crash casualties’ families and he was to investigate exhumed bodies of the crash casualties. The late Przemysław Gosiewski’s wife – a senator Beata Gosiewska, wanted to have the autopsy of her husband’s body carried out. A military prosecutor told her that it was prohibited. And if it had been done, she would have been exposed to procurators’ action. And there is no doubt that the crash casualties’ bodies are an evidence material which contains an enormous amount of information which can help in explanation of the course of events. A similar situation is with the family of Anna Walentynowicz: she is not allowed to have DNA examination done in a foreign laboratory…
– Soon after the catastrophe the Russians said about an explosion in the airplane. It is also known that Tusk said to Putin about it. So, the Russians were prone to say that there had been an explosion but has something changed?
– Even more. The Russian Television produced an animated film about the course of events in which it is seen that the airplane is torn in the air. The film was even broadcast on the Russian Television in the evening of 10 April. All this happened before a talk of Putin and Tusk. The talk was a decisive moment. After the talk both Putin and the rest of the Russian authorities made sure that the Polish governmental party would be prone to conceal the real course of events. That it is allowed to deceive. That it is allowed to tell lies. Since then the Russians have already started to develop the whole operation of lies, with the co-particpation of the government of Donald Tusk.
– Do you suggest that it was an assassination and it ‘came out’ from Poland?
– I do not suggest anything and I do not have any doubts about the fault of the Russian party. But can you tell me why the minister Radosław Sikorski stated just after 11 a.m. that it was the fault of Polish pilots? And later he explained: what else could I say when I had found out from navigators that the airplane crashed into trees? ….Whereas I analyzed very carefully what controllers from the navigation tower had said. None of them said that the airplane had crashed into trees. This is a lie. They only said that the airplane had started to depart into the second circle and fallen. So, either SIkorski found out about it from someone else whose identity he conceals, or he made up this lie by himself in order to burden Polish pilots with the Russian fault. And at the time when he could not have any credible information about the course of events. But what he thought as necessary was to burden Polish pilots with responsibility. And was it the Foreign Issues minister of the Polish Republic? Today this man is repeating this lie!
– In the last weeks, however, there appeared ‘signs of awareness’ from the government that it might be impossible to conceal the truth…
– Indeed. Such a last ‘sign’ is an interview which Bogdan Klich gave. He says: Well, the Russians order us so. We could not do anything. The Russian party wanted it and we had to do it. In other words – Klich presents the government whose minister he was, as the satellite government. The Polish president had to be killed because Putin wanted so…By the way, this interview of Bogdan Klich is compatible with his behavior soon after the catastrophe. Thanks to Mrs. Anita Gargas an interview was revealed by the Parliamentary Team, which had taken place on 16 April 2010. The interview between Bogdan Klich, a defence minister at that time, and Edmund Klich, a chief of the governmental Commission for Air Accidents of the National Aviation at that time. During that interview Bogdan Klich had pretence to Edmund Klich that he had sent him reports which suggested that it was the fault of the Russians. So, we know who and how was creating this defence front of Putin…
– In a report of the Parliamentary Team we find information that members of the Governmental Commission behave in such a way as if they knew real causes of the catastrophe but they decided that they could not write it. Why is such a thesis?
– It results directly from an interview of Władimir Putin and Donald Tusk at night on 10 April 2010, registered by television and revealed by us. During that interview, reporting on the course of the catastrophe, Putin says very clearly that there was no ‘armoured birch tree’, that the airplane did not turn upside down. However, he suggested that if the airplane diverted from its route, it was a danger of falling onto airplanes plant and then it would have been a big tragedy. He also said that the machine had crashed into the ground with its pulled out chassis, exploded and burst into pieces. It is a completely different picture of the tragedy, than the report of Tatiana Anodina and Jerzy Miller presents! Till today in the issue of this extremely important talk, Donald Tusk has not been heard by a procurator yet. But when Putin was telling Tusk about it, he had already had basic knowledge about what had happened. Soon after the catastrophe the Russians decoded registered information in the black boxes. It was an operation related to KGB. The black boxes were identified soon after the catastrophe and filmed by our film operator Sławomir Wiśniewski. His film was taken by functionaries of secnaz. The black boxes were taken out from mud and decoded. It is proved by a message announced by RIA Novosti at 4.30 p.m. on 10 April. It stated that registered information in the black boxes shows that there had not been any fire or explosion, and the cause of the catastrophe was the pilots’ fault. Whereas, when a Polish team with Edmund Klich arrived on 10 April after 6 p.m., they were taken to the place of the catastrophe and shown the black boxes. The black boxes were taken out and carefully sealed and put under control by guards, etc. Generally – a kind of a comedy was created. So, when we see KGB in action, we see manipulation and insolence with which the Russians were behaving. So, during his talk with Tusk at 10 p.m., Putin had already known the truth about the catastrophe. He knew the content of the black boxes. When Anodina published its report, and then Jerzy Miller published his, Tusk had already known that the whole situation with the birch tree, with overturning of the airplane upside down were fiction. The government in Poland knew the course of the catastrophe, but it was telling a lie. It is out of any doubts.
– In February you were in the USA to give a lecture about the catastrophe and meet with important politicians of the United States. Did you manage to make the Americans interested in ‘Smoleńsk’?
– During my visit in the USA I gave a lecture at Rutgers University. I also presented a film reconstructing the course of events. I had a similar meeting in the Institute of World Politics in Washington. I also presented work results of our Team and I talked about undertaking of public hearings in the USA Congress. It raised a lot of interest. If the government of the prime minister Kopacz and the Civic Platform politicians had not disturbed or conducted any diversions, such a hearing could take place in summer this year. Putin’s current policy has an influence on a better way of understanding this tragedy in Smoleńsk. Today nobody dares to support the thesis of Tusk or Sikorski, that bloodshed in Smoleńsk will join the Polish and Russian nations, that Putin is more interested in explaining this catastrophe, that Polish pilots are guilty…Everyone emphasizes that they are aware of a big danger from Russia. There is more understanding in the USA that the policy of president of Kaczyński was the last earthwork separating the West from this avalanche which is falling onto the world now. The government of Ewa Kopacz, president Komorowski and Civic Platform politicians in the world, who are defending Putin against the international investigation in the crime in Smoleńsk.