A NEW QUALITY OF EUROPE
Wiesława Lewandowska talks with prof. Paweł Bromski about creating a ‘new European man’, a federalization process and the communist spirit of Europe
WIESŁAWA LEWANDOWSKA: - Both the old and new EU countries are referring to the so-called European values, but with different interpretation; in Poland we are trying to recall their Christian roots, in the West it is on contrary – the ideology of Marxism is being quoted. What is happening with the European values?
PROF. PAWEŁ BROMSKI: - They got subordinated to political changes taking place in Europe. When in 1999 as an advisor of the minister in the Office of European Integration Committee I was dealing with joining Poland to the European Union, we were sure that we were dealing with the European union of homelands. Together with the minister of that time Ryszard Czarnecki, we organized a special conference for MPs in the Seym, during which my book was created, entitled: ‘Europe of homelands’. It defined European aspirations of Poland and explained how Europe of homelands differed from Europe as a federalist country. Copies of my book were given away to all MPs.
- Wasn’t our dream about Europe of homelands a naivety about Europe of homelands at that time?
- We must admit that at that time in Poland we knew very little about mechanisms governing the European Union – here I mean also politicians – we were confused about documents, we did not understand that EU official new speech. However, we really wanted to ‘enter Europe’ and indeed we were a bit naive to assume that it would be participation in the community of our dream, which the Church wanted, and which warned us against ‘reducing the vision of united Europe only to its economic and political aspects’ with the words of John Paul II; it also taught us that ‘a new quality of Europe, if we want it to be permanent, should be built on these spiritual values which used to form it, considering the richness and variety of cultures and traditions of particular nations. For it is to be a big European community of spirit!’. Those were our dreams about common Europe.
- Whereas European projects have been completely different for a long time….
- And exactly it has changed into a political project since the Treaty of Maastricht, under which the European Economic Community stopped being a purely economic organization in 1992; this political project assumes a possibility of changing Europe of nations into one federal country. At once various political actions were taken and which were aiming at this direction.
- When in 2004 Poland was joining the EU, Polish politicians did not exclude this possibility, did they?
- Probably. But first of all everybody ignored this problem.
- At that time it was difficult to speak about a responsible political class. The history of Poland decided that for the past two centuries the Polish political thought had not been able to develop. The policy was pursued on behalf of us either by invaders or the Soviet occupier at the time of communism in Poland. So, our desire of freedom, associated with free West made the accession to EU be the same as a real accession to the free world. Hence, we were so naïve, not only in a political but economic sense.
- Because we thought that ‘we grabbed God’s legs’….Could Poland, in your opinion, negotiate much more beneficial conditions of its accession to EU?
- It could! Indeed we were pointing out to the argument of benefits which had been gained by Western countries because of opening up the Polish market and we estimated that the pure advantage of the West at the time of a few years of free trade, still before the accession of Poland to the EU, was at least 50 milliard dollars! Unfortunately, in negotiations the next team lacked suitable determination.
- And were we rather hoping only for our own benefits?
- Yes, we blindly believed in the West-Europe values, we believed in the power of money and the fact that when our economy was taken over by western experts, Poland would have taken advantage of it. Undoubtedly, thanks to the participation in the EU the standard of living in Poland has definitely improved. Poles got freed from communism and can move in Europe freely. It is very important particularly for young people and our nation for whom the good future is well-educated Polish youth.
- Too much emigration – already of 2 million people – young Poles do not necessarily bode the future of the nation….
- Therefore the Polish country must take more care of providing better conditions of life and work here. It is obvious.
- Otherwise it will be difficult to maintain the existence of Poland as a national country…
- We can be afraid of it. especially that European trends are aiming at federalization of countries and they see a practical implementation of the Manifest of Ventotene by Altier Spinelli, being nearly a literal copy of the ‘Communist Manifest’ by Marx and Engel from 100 years ago – a manifest of the leftist character which was a founding act of the Treaty of Maastricht.
- Most Poles are supporting the belonging of Poland to the EU. But do they understand governing mechanisms in it well?
- Most of them do not understand and no wonder, as the mechanisms are regulated in an absurd way and produce an absurd bureaucracy. For example, for two years a special European subcommittee was debating on an instruction of using a ladder, after which it stated that a worker using a ladder should be trained and rungs should be arranged in the horizontal position.
- Was it a joke?
- By no means! A similar case was with the degree of curving bananas and with a lot of much more serious matters.
- What does this exaggerated EU bureaucracy mean?
- In my opinion, this is a sign of aiming at a totalitarian country in which everything would be subordinated to excessive regulation, and which would be imposed on the whole world, too, with creating one ‘worldly country’….For this purpose reinterpretations of olds values are being used, and, for example, with the motto of ‘strengthening protection of human rights and civic freedoms’ a new reality is being created in which nations are deprived of possibility of creating life together according to their own tradition and beliefs. Under the motto of ‘worldview and religious neutrality’ the Christians’ rights are being reduced and the Christian European fundament is negated. Behind the curtain of ‘protection of reproductive rights’ abortion to a request is hidden, ‘protection of rights of sexual minorities’ – is an attack on the institution of marriage and family, ‘protection of a child’s rights’ is really aimed at the parental authority, the so-called gender ideology is aiming at liquidation of traditional social roles, and accentuating rights of emigrants and inviting them are to cause de-integration of societies.
- So, what is today’s European Union like – is it a bit more Christian or is it completely communist?
- It is full of contradictions; for example, annual parades of Schuman are organized by activists supporting communist ideologies of Spinelli or Christianity of Schuman….Being a majority in the European Parliament, the Christian Democrats have become leftist activists aiming at taking over the whole authority in Europe, at revolution, but realized in a bit different way, than it was done by Marxist communists. In order to carry it out, undoubtedly they must reinterpret or even negate Christian values.
- And are they negating it effectively?
- Effectively? I hope that they are not. But they must be working on it. What is dangerous is that all political circumstances create an improbably lucky scheme for leftists activists governing the EU today, who find more and more allies.
- For example in Russia?
- As usually! Like Wolter was spitting at Poland and Catholicism for a tsarist’s money, and Sartre made Stalin famous for soviet money, like parties of the green were financed by the USSR, also European leftist activists are popular in Kremlin, especially when they are destroying Europe and its Christian fundaments.
- How advanced, in your opinion, is the process of Europe federalization?
- Luckily this purpose is still far away and it is not certain whether it will be possible to achieve it. It is so mainly because Mrs. Chancellor Merkel and other leftist activists had been too certain to say that letting immigrants in under the pretext of the lack of hands for work would be an excellent tool for de-integration of societies and nations of Europe. Whereas it were just the biggest European countries which cannot cope with the overwhelming enormous immigration wave. In addition, Russia which is active in Near East and is doing everything to push out millions of refugees from there to Europe. Israel is behaving in a similar way, which – in my opinion – wants to take a revenge on Europe for the Holocaust and get rid of as many young Arabs from Near East, able to carry weapon, as possible. Today societies of western countries are beginning to revolt against immigration policy of their governments. For example, Germany has already become a rich country without rich citizens, who are simply escaping from there.
- A real threat for the European civilization is going to be taking over European parliaments by representatives of the Islamists in a democratic way. Is it a really distant perspective?
- In my opinion, it is not so distant. A few dozen years ago Muammar Kadafi said that the very demography made Islam, which used to be an outer threat for Europe, become an inner power and take over the authority in France in a democratic way.
- Does an idea of creating the European federalist country in this situation seem a breakneck vision, not politically beneficial for Europe?
- I think that European politicians lost their mind and have been deprived of their reason! It is really strange that they are so determined to implement the unsuccessful project of Spinelli! Influential European politicians belong to the prestigious Association of Spinelli ( including nearly all leading politicians of the Polish Civic Platform party). Those who are governing Europe today do not conceal their intention of creating the so-called new European man, a follower of a new moral system. But we should not forget that creating a ‘new man’ was the purpose of all totalitarian systems we know!
- Once the European community, and then the EU were set up in order to prevent reappearing totalitarianisms, whereas it is the community which is developing the cancer of totalitarianism?!
- The European Union is not a democratic institution today any longer. The only body elected democratically is the European Parliament whose resolutions do not have any legal value, and all essential decisions are made by European institutions appointed in a different and strange way. What is the most terrifying is the fact that it happens so because of a planned conscious action of people governing the European Union! At present what is undertaken by them – luckily without any result – the most dangerous attempt of creating the common European army.
- Why is it so dangerous?
- Because the concealed purpose of creating these powers is eliminating NATO from the area of Europe. Mainly Germany is aiming at it, because the German Bundeswehra is not independent now, feels tied up, being subordinated to the leadership of NATO and full American control…..Germany begins to feel bothered by it, so such countries as Poland should not support the EU military independence which might, in fact, change into a ruthless domination of strong European countries over the weakest ones. Similarly as we should not agree to a bigger hegemony of the EU law over the national one.
- It is some time since in Poland there have been talks about a necessity of healing Europe. Is it still possible?
- In my opinion, in this issue particular European countries must consider the situation separately: for example, in the case of France, which is secularized and Islamized, I cannot see a possibility that we, as Poland, could have an effective influence on the change of values domineering there. I am afraid that it will not be possible to realize the beautiful vision of John Paul II, that Poland could re-christianize Europe.
- Some hope for the change of the situation in Europe is raised by an idea of building a strong economic sphere in the centre of the continent, the so-called Three Seas Initiative. May it be possible?
- It is necessary to do everything to succeed in it! Strong American support for the idea of the Three Seas Initiative gives a chance that despite a hectic counteraction towards Germany and Russia, this economic-geopolitical initiative, important for us, may really be successful. However, it requires support from the USA with something like the second plan of Marshall.
- During the recent visit in Poland, the prime minister of Hungary Viktor Orban expressed his hope that it was just Hungary and Poland which could undertake attempts of reforming the EU….What reformation ideas could we suggest?
- We can reform the Union only by the growth of our own economic power; we must get rich as a country. But only as much as we can do it. It does not have to be difficult, as – according to the European surveys – Poles are the richest society; the land and most flats are in private hands. But this is the basis to create the richness of the whole country, to build a strong effective country – we must only understand this need well. Moreover, we should be still effective in refusing to accept Islamic immigrants, that is, maintain the direction accepted by the current Polish government.
- Does it mean going against European trends?
- But for the European common welfare! I think that winning the election in Poland by the Law and Justice Party was a miracle like the miracle of the battle at the Vistula. Like in 1920 – also to save Europe!
Translated by Aneta Amrozik
Niedziela 23/2018 (10 VI 2018)